The Brazilian Lounge Podcast welcomed Plínio Augusto Lemos Jorge, a prominent figure in the legal scene related to the betting market. Current president of ANJL (National Lottery Games Association) and partner at the law firm Lemos Jorge Advogados Associados, he brought perspectives on the challenges and opportunities that arise with the regulation of the sector in Brazil.
His legal experience spans over two decades in the field. In addition, his time as a judge at the São Paulo Tax and Fees Court strengthened his practical knowledge. And his academic background with a master’s and doctorate completed the repertoire necessary for an in-depth analysis of the current moment in the industry.
ANJL and its role in the sector
When asked about ANJL, Plínio highlighted that the association currently has 26 associated operators and four more in the queue for approval. He explained that the entity brings together not only betting operators, but also payment methods, marketing agencies, game providers and platforms.
According to the lawyer, this plurality allows the association to have a broad view of the challenges faced by all sectors of the industry.
When talking about the importance of associations, Jorge emphasized: “When we unite a sector in favor of a movement, in favor of a category, especially in this industry that is always under attack, I think it is very important to act as a bloc, and legitimacy really has to come from this associative movement.”
The president of ANJL stressed that the main work of the association is to identify the problems in the sector and take them to the regulator, authorities and other federations. In addition, it is to discuss with entities that often attack the industry without knowing it properly.
Recent achievements of ANJL
When asked about the association’s recent achievements, he highlighted its rapprochement with the banking sector, specifically with Febraban (Brazilian Federation of Banks). He reported how he managed, together with other members, to hold a meeting with Febraban’s president, Isaac Sidney, who initially had a stance against regulating the sector.
Regarding this meeting, he commented: “A meeting that started off very difficult because President Isaac had his convictions, he exposed all of his convictions, and then we calmly managed to show the points where he was wrong.”
After this first meeting, which lasted much longer than expected, Febraban invited ANJL to participate in the AML (Money Laundering Prevention) committee, opening an important channel of dialogue with the banking sector, which previously created major obstacles for the betting sector’s operations.
Sector challenges and the tax issue
Drawing on his solid background in Tax Law, Jorge addressed complex issues in the sector. First, he discussed the territoriality of online gambling. Then, he analyzed the challenges related to the payment of ISS (Tax on Services) in this digital market.
The president of ANJL explained that there is an important discussion about where the bet is placed: at the place where the bettor is or at the company’s headquarters. He stressed that this definition has significant implications for taxation and for the issue of state and municipal lotteries.
“I still have a little difficulty defining the location of the service provision that is not the player’s location”, he pointed out.
Plínio Lemos Jorge’s trajectory in the sector
When asked about how he entered the gaming and betting sector, the association’s president revealed that his career began in the tax area. Initially, he specialized in ICMS, his main field of activity. Later, he consolidated his expertise by working as a judge at the Tax Court for 11 years.
In 2017, a group from the Northeast that was starting online betting operations approached him to understand the tax issues involved in the business.
Regarding his learning journey in the sector, the lawyer shared: “I started advertising in 2018, 2019, working a little, understanding the industry, seeing what was betting, what was odds, what was GGR… and I confess that it was difficult.”
He highlighted the complexity of the industry and how it took time to understand all the specific aspects and terminology. In March of last year, he took on the presidency of ANJL, a challenge he accepted even though he considered himself an “outsider to the industry.”
Education and awareness
An important point raised by Jorge was the education and awareness-raising work that ANJL carries out with authorities and regulatory bodies. He reported experiences of meetings with delegates and prosecutors to explain how the sector works and avoid misinterpretations that could harm the industry.
Regarding this educational work, the president of ANJL shared: “I took him a flowchart, an organizational chart of what this is, how it is done, what it was like before legalization, after legalization, means of payment, influence, affiliate… I spent about two hours there with him explaining.”